style92 ([info]style92) wrote,
@ 2008-01-07 23:16:00
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The Batman Season 4 review (SPOILERS)
Yep, Spoilers.

Ah, the Batman season 4. Missed it as it was airing, but through the magic of DVD, I've seen it now. I love how that works. This Season is the season wherein either A). Batfans starting watching because they claim it finally got good, or B). the bellyacheing grew old and the Batfan hold outs finally decided to settle. I think it was B, because the season, while excellent, was not a marked improvement over the previous two.

And on to the episodes!

A Matter of Family: Robin finally makes his overdue entrance into The Batman and the series finally becomes complete. As an episode, it has it's moments, it really does, of being something akin to artful. Still, while writers are slaving away at new and innovative ways to portray Batman's origin, Robin's comes off kind of perfunctory, like everyone's reading a script. Like "Robin's Reckoning," Bruce Wayne impulsively takes in Dick only to pawn him off on Alfred. In both cases, Batman professes to be doing it for Dick, ("I'm doing this for him!" "I don't want your childhood to be consumed by revenge. Like mine was." Ooh, like that last line, didn't think this series would go there,) but Really Bruce has adopted Dick's cause so he can project his own frustrations on his parenters murder onto Dick's Parent's Murderer. Yep. This one also had the job of getting Dick to be Robin by the end, which "RR" didn't have to deal with, (remember, that one only got Dick down into the cave, not into costume.) Here, Dick becoming Robin so fast almost works, and almost doesn't feel forced.

Nice use of BTAS cameos.

Team Penguin: Guilty or not, Tom Kenny's Penguin is a pleasure I never tire of indulging in. I know it's kind of in vogue to hate him and the Joker, but Damn, I find them both immensely pleasing. Here, the Penguin has hatched an idea that ain't that bad, all things considered, and does a nice job of bringing back in B and C rate villains. This version of Killer Moth is really really funny too, and gives the Titans version a run for his money. (Particularly the twist him Moth become a true monster, but still maintaining loyalty to Penguin who has abused and belittled him so!) On the other side of things, Batman's team gells as Robin and Batgirl meet, (so glad they didn't drop Batgirl as though she never existed, a la Yin) and rankle each other nicely. In fact, things settle into a very comfortable groove, that eerily reminds me of the TNBA days. (So much so that I often think of Robin as Tim, not Dick, then have to mentally correct myself. "No, this IS Dick.")And maybe it's odd to say so, but I'm glad Batgirl is a younger teenager this time out, so she's NOT defined as a love interest to either Bruce or Dick. As such, the Dick/Babs interaction is refreshingly innocent and spunky.

Nice action too. Especially love Robin's fight with Ragdoll as viewed from exterior.

Clayfaces: Ethan Bennet's Saga comes to an end, as his reputation is restored in a fight with a much more vicious Clayface. Now, personally, I always liked Meltdown and felt it DID make an interesting case for why Bennet would lapse into outright villainry. A few others, though, didn't like that episode and felt the change was unnatural. Seems like the guy who wrote this agreed with the latter opinion, so he fixes it by making Bennet's switch back just as sudden and arbitrary. So then, Bennet's Saga, which should be an epic about the fall of a Just Man and his fight to redeem himself, comes of just somewhat hollow. Still, the episode is pretty good.

Basil Karlo as Clayface Mark II is grating, but I grant that was the point of his character as written. It's clever that his crimewave is a huge publicity stunt, but Hagen as the actor Clayface was just better. He was Clayface as if played by Heston, (or Heston's lower-rent TV counterpart, Shatner) The material can be paper thin, but so much .....ACTING!!!... goes into it it manages to play. Basil Karlo is just played by the schlubb working at Blockbuster.

The Everywhere Man: The Everywhere Man is just as interesting as his Gimmick (duplicating himself) would indicate. No more, No less. More satisfying is Batman's reaction to all this: Utter disdain to this villain and his means and motives. Batman treats him EM as if EM is just totally beneath him. (In some ways, it's worse than how BTAS Batman treated Ra's Al Ghul. At least Batman would crack jokes and laugh openly at Ra's over the top super villainry. Everywhere Man just isn't even worth THAT kind of effort to Batman apparently.)

The Breakout: Indulge me, please. Back in the Miasma between Batman and Robin and Batman Begins, when Warner Bros. knew they still wanted to make Batman movies but had no idea how to do it, everyone seemed to have an opinion on the matter. My personal suggestion was, Why do Superhero movies need to be structured the way they are? Basically, a Superhero engaging in a grudge match with a Supervillain that goes for an extended period of time and several encounters across a movie. Can't it be structured more focusedly? How about a Batman version of Die Hard, for example? Well, the Breakout is as close to a Batman Die Hard as I've seen crop up in as many years, and it's a refreshing and engaging change of Pace for it.

But let's not beat around the Bush: the stars here are Robin and Batgirl, who are charming as kid sidekicks in ways kid sidekicks usually aint. from there initial goofing off to them having to rally to beat back Black Mask's forces with no police and no Batman to help them. It's all very honest. From Robin sinking briefly into despair to Batgirl's tender treatment of the unconscious Commissioner, (without an explicit reminder to the audience that they are father and daughter, which I thought was a nice touch,) it's easy to get caught up in it all.

Strange New World: Damn Bat-embargo. This should have been a Scarecrow piece and we all know it. If it were, it would have been a more creative use of Scarecrow Toxin than anything in BTAS or TNBA. So, Hugo Strange has created a Toxin that turns all of Gotham into Zombies, and it's down to Batman to save the whole city. Or is there more to this than meets the eye? (ROBOTS IN DISGUISE! Sorry.)

Effective Use of the "Dream as trap." Not as good as "over the edge" or Futurama's "The Sting, but possibly on par with "Perchance to Dream" and defiantly better than the animated "For the Man who Has Everything." (Seriously, having the dream of FTMWHE be a paradise is seriously missing the point. Awakening from a dream or delusion is never nor should it ever be portrayed as a tragedy. And don't try to through "Perchance to Dream" at me. that dream world was only superficially a Bruce Wayne paradise. Fundamentally, it mocked his entire being. FTMWHE coddled Superman's.)

Artifacts: So, if this is the year 3000 or so, does that mean Fry, Leela, and Bender are flying around somewhere? and wouldn't Bruce Wayne's head be at the Head Museum? Well, anyway, this episode is mostly about the writers getting able to work out there "Future Batman" jones, hence cameos by Oracle, Nightwing, and a DKR-esque Batman. And Mr. Freeze is going the same way as his TNBA counterpart, it seems. So, if seeing all those things gives you Geekgasms, more power to you. But I ask: wouldn't a Carrie Kelly esque Robin have rounded things off nicely?

Seconds: For some reason, I suspect this episode may have originally been intended as a Clock King introduction, but then they decided against it. Anyway, it's a clever use of time travel and a gimmick that gets laughs. Particularly flattering to the couch potato viewer is the idea that any problem, including an assault from Batman, is just a series of smaller patterns to navigate. What I do and don't like about this episode: I DO like how he gets his Superpower. No accidental infusion, just a man left isolated, with nothing left to do but to explore his brain's own innate potential. I didn't like how the episode claimed such pathos at the end. To that point, it was just Batman in a fight against a clever foe, as Batman struggled to figure out a way to overcome him. Then, it just all went apocalyptic in a hurry. Sure, our criminal got a happy ending, but it's still not the ending I felt was most appropriate to the piece.

Riddler's Revenge: The Riddler finally gets a second solo outing in a tale that explores his origins. As has been said before, sometimes the problem with this character is that the writers over think his escapades. This one, finally, has gone in the opposite direction. We don't get a central Riddler crime to solve, but rather open on Riddler having planted bombs on his former boss's boat that can be diffused when his boss can solve a hilariously simple Riddle. But Riddler has his boss bound and gagged, taunting him "Speak up! I can't hear you!" And what follows is his origins, peppered with a minor mystery.

This episode, more than anything else, made me realize that by now Riddler does have a definitive over arching origin story that's true of him in mostly all versions. Basically, Riddler is a talented young genius who gets screwed over by corporate America. That's true in BTAS, Batman Forever, and now The Batman (In Batman Forever, the executive who screws over Nygma was none other than Bruce Wayne! I KNEW I still liked that movie for a reason!) But I must confess, this take on Riddler does try a couple of interesting twists on this rapidly forming archetypal tale. Mostly, was Edward Nygma's persecution mostly in his mind? An important point of his origin is his feud with his father. Obviously Nygma viewed him as an overgrown brute that humiliated and belittled him, and just "didn't understand." But we ask, was Nygma's father such a bad guy after all? All he seemed to do was insist his son get out for a little physical activity and interact with other children. Both of which are currently being strongly urged of parents in our internet-driven age. Oh sure, the man may have broken some of Edward's puzzles, which probably was going over the line somewhat. Still, if Edwards father had, say, confiscated instead of destroying those puzzles, that wouldn't have been bad. As such, it seems Edward Nygma spent his life rebelling against his father and his lessons. Which makes it very easy for me to see Nygma's chief failing as an adult: He's naive about people.

Nygma's boss would be in the habit of calling him Champ just as Nygma's father would. That, all by itself, was enough to make Nygma hate him. Nygma was paired on a project with another scientist, who happened to be a pretty and young woman, who spoke to Nygma cordially. That, all by itself, was enough to make Nygma think she was to be his great love. But again, Nygma fails to see below these surfaces. Nygma's boss may have been a blowhard, but we all have obnoxious bosses and Nygma's probably wasn't so bad, all things considered. As for the woman, Nygma had already made the mistake of viewing her as an accessory to himself, (his love) and stopped seeing her as an independent moral agent. Sure, she took advantage of him, and that's reprehensible, (Batman's decision to leave her tied up until the police came is understandable,) but she does seem to have one redeeming value: she knew people. She could see that Nygma was a naive, socially and emotionally stunted person whom she did NOT want to be working with for years to come. Next to Nygma, who would never have been able to grasp such subtlety, she comes off not so bad.

On another note, it's interesting that Batman solves the mystery of who sabotaged Nygma by pointing out that Nygma's boss would not have been smart enough to sabotage the brain discs to make it look like equipment failure. Only someone who actually worked on the project could do that. It's an interesting point, because, in really for real life, that would be a great big "Well DUH!" But, in comic book would, not necessarily. In comic books, many characters that figure prominently are very smart, even some who you wouldn't think would be. I mean, this is a universe rife with Business men who are also talented scientists who could pull something like that off. To me, it's a smart narrative move that subtlety disobeys the rules. (For another example of intelligence blown out of proportion, I submit Return of the Joker. Yes, great movie, but c'mon, I found it's central conceit laughably both then and now. I can believe the Joker as a brilliant chemist, but Joker actually managed to figure out a way of implanting Brainwaves and DNA into a microchip that re sequences the physiology of it's victim into the Joker? I mean, wouldn't cloning himself have been vastly easier by comparison? Seems Dwayne McDuffie felt the same way I did and had the little retcon in Epilogue about Joker stealing Cadmus nanites to pull it off. See, I don't critiscize McDuffie all the time.)

One final note about this episode: Title may be a reference to the Rubicks Revenge, a 4x4x4 version of the Rubicks cube introduced when the public started to figure out how to solve the 3x3x3 version.

Two of a Kind: Harley Quinn gets introduced to the world of The Batman as Paul Dini is tasked to reconfigure her origins to something more befitting The Batman. Batgirl gets a nice Freudian Dick Joke at Penguin's expense. But anyway, this version of the tale reminds me how demeaning Paul can be to Harley. To Paul, even Harley's real accomplishments, such as her degree in psychology, must be viewed with a jaundiced eye. The original comic version of "Mad Love" plainly stated that Harley only got through College by screwing her professors. I was glad to see that angle dropped in the animated version. (And overall, I would say that the animated Mad love was a subtle improvement over the comics tale.) But here, those old implications come back even more pathetically. Harley has her degree through some lame 12 week online course. Now Paul's saying she wasn't even good enough to go to real College! Consider all this in contrast to the Joker, who is evil but still has the dignity by being a truly talented chemist. Not so with Harley. To Dini, Harley is nothing but a fluzy.

Still, to call attention this episodes strengths, this is truly a Harley spotlight of a kind I just don't remember seeing in BTAS. Too true, BTAS did have many Harley spotlights, (Harley and Ivy, Harlyquinnade and Harley's Holiday all very memorable.) But when Harley got a spotlight in BTAS, it was usually only in episodes she got to spend a significant amount of time away from Joker. (The above 3 examples.) When Joker and Harley would reteam, she would get back in line as his subservient. Here, she's paired with Joker the whole time and holds her own. the final scheme is hers and focused around her. Even Joker starts getting worried that she's stealing the spotlight. So in that sense, I do have to say attitudes about the character may have improved.

Her new design is undeniably cute. Harley was cuter in a handful of TNBA episodes, (Particularly beware the creeper,) but that's rarified company.

Rumors: Yep. Every so often the itch comes up to write a story about a fellow who's "more Batman than Batman" someone not just willing to beat the baddies and turn them over to the police, but someone out to off the baddies once and for all. The obvious moral dilemma is whether or not letting someone kill the killers is a bad idea, but hardly any entries in this sort of story explore that as much as it could be. from BTAS, we have Mask the Phantasm, and Lock up. TNBA contributes Judgment Day and to a lesser extent, Mystery of the Batwoman. Batman Beyond has "Payback" to it's name, and finally the Batman has Rumors. And to be honest, since no episode proposes a solution to the central moral dilemma, only the episodes where there's a clever twist as to the new vigalante's secret identity stand out. That's why Rumors gets filed away with the likes of Judgment day. Mostly Meh. But to it's credit, it does ring out some interesting moments having all the villains together reacting to this situation, and a very memorable fight with all the villains.

Joining, parts 1 and 2: Umm, okay, I guess. I mean, there are memorable bits to be sure, but the whole alien invasion story comes together quickly and perfunctorily, the aliens themselves don't seem so unique, and the whole thing seems mostly like an exercise in how many one-liners they can squeeze into this thing. (I mean, lately people seem impressed by one liners again, but I remember when they were considered cheap and lame.) I mean, sure, the watchtower being a floating version of the Hall of Justice from Superfriends does tickle my geek bone, but I had to train myself long ago to not reward or be impressed by such gratuitous references. Some shows just slide by on them.

And there you go. On par with season 2. Part of me still likes season 3 more.

Hopefully, coming soon-ish a review of Bender's Big Score with a large geeky discussion on time travel.


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[info]90scartoonman
2008-01-09 03:50 am UTC (link)
Although The Batman did show an improvement before season 4, there were elements in season 4 that made it come across as a stronger season. Even some of the episodes previously that weren't bad or anything were a little boring. I liked the new design of Bruce, the silliness was brought down to a perfect level, and every single episode I anticipated seeing again as soon as it ended.

I love the addition of Robin. Dick Grayson's one of my favorite characters, and in all the cartoons and movies he's been in before this, they don't let him be a kid, which is why seeing him on The Batman is refreshing. He looks up to Batman rather than questions him and has a lot to learn from him (which is probably why this is the only Dick Grayson who wants to become Batman, as we see in "Artifacts". Batgirl is also a better character because she's brought into the fold. I liked her when she was introduced, but her constantly wanting to be Batman's partner was a bit annoying.

The Breakout - I've always said it'd be a true challenge for someone to make a superhero movie that isn't the origin of the hero or the villain (and suggested a Hawkman version of Indiana Jones). Really liked the Batgirl and Robin bits in this episode.

Strange New World - It could've been a Scarecrow episode, sure, but Hugo Strange is one of the best villains on the show, so I thought this was a strong episode all around. Awakening from a dream isn't necessarily a tragedy, but it can certainly be painful to someone who thinks it's real at the time.

Two of a Kind - To me, the perfect Harley Quinn will be a cross between intelligent and wacky (as in, she puts on the wacky act to keep things light but is smart enough to pull off her own plans). The short lived Harley Quinn series showed that pretty well. I'm glad to hear you talk about the episode's strengths. It seemed like last time you felt like it was treading old ground. Joker worried about her stealing the spotlight really worked, and so did that song in an odd way.

Rumors - I never thought about this until just now, but we are LONG overdue for some sort of Batman/Huntress animated confrontation. She fits this role perfectly.

Joining - I've yet to see an animated superhero vs. alien invasion where the aliens don't come across as generic, but I thought this was pretty cool. There were some good lines (funny stuff and deep stuff), and I loved the Batman vs. Martian Manhunter fight and then their talk in the diner. I only hope the shapeshifting bit isn't going to steal thunder from New Frontier.

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[info]style92
2008-01-09 04:12 am UTC (link)
Your comments about Robin: YES! Thank You! indeed, everyone who's been doing him lately is in a hurry to make him Nightwing, so we assume that he and Bruce have to argue all the time. So, yes, I did appreciate that about Artifacts. Making Dick not hate Bruce would not belittle Nightwing. (On the other hand, maybe writers didn't want to muddy the waters more by throwing in extra Robins on Artifacts.)

The Breakout: Exactly. Super hero movies are in a rut. "Origin of Hero. Origin of Villain. Hero wants to quit. Another Villain. Hero turns bad. Yadda Yadda Yadda." I'm less knowledgeable on Hawkman, but Hawkman Indiana Jones sounds cool.

Strange New World: After I wrote that, I kinda realized that if it had been Scarecrow, Batman may have figured out it was a fear toxin all along. With Strange, he wouldn't have defaulted to that idea. So you got a point there. (For FTWHE, I think it's kinda lame that Superman's complaint is "How DARE you give me a wonderful dream and make me wake up from it!" Umm, dreams aren't valuable in and of themselves, but only as portals to personal insight. That's why comic FTMWHE and Perchance to Dream were better IMO. Those dreams caused Batman and Superman to confront and challenge some very personal issues. Cartoon FTMWHE is just a warm and fuzzy dream, nothing more.)

Two of a Kind: Sometimes a first review isn't the best review. Some things need time. Star Wars Ep III, for example. I had to grow into it. My initial review, (Still presumably on Toonzone) was scathingly negative, but later I found it was deeper than I first thought. I love it now. There's still some old ground being tread, but it wasn't until I got the DVD that I realized that Joker and Harley's interaction was somewhat different, and now stronger. So I appreciate that.

Rumors: Hmm, maybe. Huntress, I know a good deal about and yet I don't. I've read some stories in comics about Earth 2 huntress, (who was Bruce and Selina's daughter) and saw most of the Birds of Prey show and then saw those JLU episodes with her. So, I dunno if I fully understand the character or why she would work in that role. I'm not putting you down for your suggestion. I suppose I'm saying I find it interesting and invite you to elaborate on it.

Joining: I suppose it is J'onn in this one. I only know Martian Manhunter from JL/U, so his portrayal in this rubbed me the wrong way. He just seemed to hip and smarmy to be J'onn. But again, that's probably just me and my ignorance of how the character has been used in a broader context.

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[info]90scartoonman
2008-01-10 05:25 am UTC (link)
It's sort of a shame that I see superhero movies as such wasted potential because I love the versatility of the stories that can be told with the characters. Batman can be a Die Hard-like movie or a hard boiled detective story. Hawkman's a museum curator, so why not have a movie where he goes on a grand adventure looking for some priceless object?

Superman was just being cranky after having been just woken up, so his rage was understandable. The FTMWHE ep may be a little too soft to have much of an edge, but I really like the blending together of his three lives to see what would fit where in a perfect world.

I can't fault you for changing your take on a review, I've done it numerous times (it took me a long time to warm up to JLU because I didn't like most of the early episodes, but when I went back and watched them, they weren't so bad).

The best description of Post-Crisis Huntress I've ever heard is the "bastard daughter" of the Bat clan. She's a constant presence in Gotham, one Batman doesn't just have one encounter with and then she's gone (like the other characters you mentioned). JLU nailed her origin pretty well, the daughter of a mob boss, she became a vigilante to permanently take out organized crime. It's interesting, although she does kill, she is both Catholic and a school teacher, so she knows how to restrain herself and isn't crazy. Batman sees potential in her, but doesn't approve of her methods. He actually brought her onto the JLA once to help her learn from everyone (and to keep a closer watch), but he had to throw her out when she nearly killed Prometheus. Huntress does seek his approval, though. During No Man's Land, she became Batgirl because she knew wearing Batman's symbol would give her a stronger presence. So their relationship is basically more than a vigilante who kills that Batman has to stop kind of thing.

Ha ha, "hip and smarmy", that's a good way of putting it. J'onn got a little wacky during the JLI days, but I mostly think of him as a straightforward and serious guy (who likes Oreos).

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[info]mattzimmer
2008-01-09 04:11 am UTC (link)
A Matter of Family: Very astute rundown of the episode. Still it IS an accomplishment that they managed to actually fit Robin's entire origin into 22 minutes.

Team Penguin: I love The Batman's Penguin. He's almost as good as TNBA's version and better than BTAS'. SO funny. This episode was hilarious.

Clayfaces: Arbitrary or not this was a retcon I could get behind considering how unconvincing I found Meltdown. Yeah, it could have been stronger but Ethan Bennett deserved this episode.

Strange New World: Yeah, this should have been a Scarecrow episode. On the upside by making it Strange by default it's his best episode ever.

Artifacts: I think I was the lone fanboy who didn't geek out at this episode. Why, oh WHY did they insist on crippling Batgirl like in the comics and turn Batman into Frank Miller's version? People always said Batman Beyond's ending for Bruce Wayne was depressing but at least they got to explore his life fuller there whereas here we just get a dour ending in a one-off episode that we'll never see again.

Seconds: The Clock King has already appeared in season five as a Green Arrow rogue.

Riddler's Revenge: Good rundown of the episode and you're right that the idea of a business guy NOT being smart enough to figure that stuff out is a nice twist. It's stuff like that that makes season four my favorite season.

Two of a Kind: Dini ALWAYS pulled sexist crap with both Harley and Ivy on BTAS. One of the lamest things about BTAS was that it was always tinged with misogyny and Dini was the worst offender. Maybe it's because he's a comic book guy and Superhero comics really seem to hate women but Dini has always had a chip on his shoulder.

Rumors: I think Doctor Strange stole this episode in his brief appearance.

The Joining: Say what you will about this episode but this version of J'onn runs rings around JLU's version. He's not a total drip and is actually fun to be around.

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[info]style92
2008-01-09 04:25 am UTC (link)
A Matter of Family: Too true. Making this a 2 parter would have only wasted a precious episode slot, so I'm glad it was a one and done.

Team Penguin: Defiantly a hilarious episode. I can't get enough of the Tom Kenny Penguin.

Clayfaces: Oh, don't get me wrong. I think he deserved it too. I never wanted Bennet to stay where he was in Meltdown. So, I'm glad he pulled it altogether. Still, when he merges with Karlo-face and demands Batman administer the antidote into the mass, that was one scary moment!

Strange New World: Part of me still has a chip on my should about this ep. Part of me wants to be condescending, and say "Just a big excuse to have a Batman vs. Zombies episode." But hey. It's a GOOD Batman vs. Zombies episode. And yes, Strange does work really well in it.

Artifacts: Personally, I kept finding it hard to believe that this version of Batman even COULD go Frank Miller like that. Didn't seem credible. Which is why I'm not convinced that it's canon.

Seconds: *Gulp* I... was not aware of this. I don't watch the show on Saturday mornings, I've been waiting for the DVDs. I have not seen a lick of season 5. Sounds like I really, really should.

Two of a Kind: Yeah... it's stuff like that that makes BTAS sometimes hard to come back to.

Rumors: Yep. That was a smart bit of Dr. Strange Ownage. In retrospect, TB's Dr. Strange fills a role that was never in BTAS. He actually CAN psychoanalyze a person on the spot and get under there skin. nice!

The Joining: See my response to Chris's comment about this.

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[info]90scartoonman
2008-01-10 05:09 am UTC (link)
Count Vertigo, you mean? Unless my memory is acting up on me...

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[info]senordildo
2008-01-09 04:26 am UTC (link)
FTMWHE: I suspect you'd like Alan Moore's original version of the story better, since it addresses the defect you pointed out.
On Riddler and Batman Forever: You should try and read the novelization of the movie by Peter David. It has a lot of interesting stuff about Nygma having a long-time obsession with Bruce Wayne. They really should have let David write the movie. As for Riddler, he's definitely the hardest Batman villain to get right. For me the most memorable version is still Gorshin's, but I'm eager to see "Riddler's Revenge."
ROTJ: the other flaw is that if DNA-transplanting technology was feasible 50 years back, surely it would have been among the possibilities considered by Bruce and Terry when they learned the Joker had returned to life. Making Joker too much of a renaissance man is definitely a no-no. As far as I'm concerned, his genius is for exploiting and hurting people in the most sickly funny ways possible. I didn't even mind when one Batman story claimed he'd stolen the Joker venom formula from his idiot savant cousin, since Joker rewarded his cousin in the manner you;d expect from an utterly cruel sociopathic bastard.
Harley: I don't think Dini thinks she's a floozy. But I do think that he views her critically. It's not that Harley isn't good intellectually to get an honest degree in Mad Love--it's that she's not good morally enough. Honesty and hard work would be a pain in the ass for her. Despite her broadly comedic schtick, Harley is one of the most tragic characters in the DCAU--an extremely intelligent woman enchained, by some shallow in her personality and morals, to an abusive "husband" who couldn't care less if he killed her. Harley has the capability to be a good person, as she touchingly demonstrates in "Harley's Holiday," and she has the capability to be brilliant, as she shows in "Mad Love," when she one--ups the Joker. And yet some weakness within her causes her to throw herself away for one of the vilest, least deserving men on earth. Superficially empowering Harley takes away much of that pathos and also tends to diminish the Joker too.

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[info]style92
2008-01-09 04:42 am UTC (link)
FTMWHE: I have. found an old edition of "Greatest Superman stories ever told" at the library. I read and thought "And people thought the JLU version was faithful? looks like it missed point to me."

Riddler: interesting, I may have to look it up. But yeah, I like Riddler's Revenge. I remember you being a fan of the Season 2 episode that introduced him, so I'd suggest catching this. It's really more about the Riddler as a person, and it doesn't particularly involve a central Riddle crime or crime wave.

ROTJ: I am going to have to find that story now! sounds interesting.

Harley: That's what I love- you make me think about things from different angles. Yes, there's validity in what you're saying, making Harley the ultimate metaphor for battered housewives. Still, my indignation partially comes from the fact that around the end of BTAS and the TNBA era, there was a lot of claptrap going around that Harley wasn't just a subservient foe, that she was a villain in her own right. And I never really believed it. It never seemed that way.


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[info]senordildo
2008-01-09 06:30 am UTC (link)
When I first watched FTMWHE I was quite bothered by its departures from the original's view of Krypton (and by the fucking horrible synthetic guitars), though I've grown more forgiving on that point, perhaps because once people brought up the PTD issue I leaned towards FTMWHE. Bruce Wayne's parents are fascinating characters--or at least they might be, if any writers wrote them as human beings.
Regarding the Joker story-- I actually posted the best parts on scans_daily a while back. The link is here: http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/4705676.html
Enjoy!
I've never believed that Harley was a villain in her own right either. She's a villain only because she's so in love with the Joker that she'll go along with anything he does. As ROTJ noted, without the Joker in her life she'd ultimately go (relatively) straight. As a villain, she's like those great character actors who are wonderful in supporting parts but can't really carry a movie on their own.

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(Anonymous)
2008-01-15 04:04 pm UTC (link)
Hey Style,

I recently emailed you just to drop you a line and the address I have no longer works. I was wondering if you could send me an email sometime at bbeyond@yahoo.com

Hope to hear from you,

James

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[info]style92
2008-01-16 03:43 am UTC (link)
Yes, any email you have is probably a couple of emails old. The current one is:

stly92@gmail.com

Thanks, and I hope to hear from you too!

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